[SystemSafety] qualification (of people) (was: Re: RE : Qualifying SW as "proven in use"

[Steve Tockey]

Chris,
I've been involved in an effort in the US to make "software engineering"
licensable (in the same sense as "chartered" outside the US). In fact,
there was a recent posting here with the subject line "Software exam gets
low grade in first test" that talked about part of that same effort.

Of course, not every programmer would need to be licensed/chartered. But
it would stand to reason that for software that can affect the "health,
safety, and welfare of the general public" that someone should take
liability--just like for civil engineering projects.


-- steve




-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hills <safetyyork at phaedsys.com>
Organization: Phaedrus Systems
Reply-To: "safetyyork at phaedsys.com" <safetyyork at phaedsys.com>
Date: Monday, July 1, 2013 2:14 AM
To: "martyn at thomas-associates.co.uk" <martyn at thomas-associates.co.uk>,
"systemsafety at techfak.uni-bielefeld.de"
<systemsafety at techfak.uni-bielefeld.de>
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] qualification (of people) (was: Re: RE
:	Qualifying SW as "proven in use"


 

-----Original Message-----
From: systemsafety-bounces at techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
[mailto:systemsafety-bounces at techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] On Behalf Of Martyn
Thomas
Sent: 27 June 2013 16:53
To: systemsafety at techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Subject: [SystemSafety] qualification (was: Re: RE : Qualifying SW as
"proven in use"

I recall that there are a few engineering standards that require that the
chief engineer on a project is Chartered. That might be a good start ...

Martyn

[CAH] 

The problem is that for (for example)

The fitter fitting a Gas Boiler has to be Registered/Certified
The electrician wiring up a Gas Boiler has to be Registered/Certified
 The programmer writing the Sw to control the Gas Boiler has to be....
reasonably house trained?

The problem we had was due to Clive Sinclair. When he produced his zx80/81
Spectrum anyone who could copy type a program from the magazine into one of
those home computers was "A Programmer" and it all went downhill from
there.
Self taught enthusiasts with no processes and many bad programming habits.

This is why things like the Rasberry Pi is a bad thing as we will get a new
generation of enthusiastic untrained people usually with a myriad of bad
[programming] habits becoming Programmers.

If we start insisting that Senior SW Engineers and project leaders etc are
Chartered things might change.  Whilst there are a few unsuitable people
who
are Chartered and a few good people will not make the Chartered when the
changes are made over time it will improve things and the industry all
together.  I note that many countries are starting to look at
Certifying/Registering Sw people particularly for safety related projects.

It will have to come.  If not now when?

Regards
 Chris Hills

On 27/06/2013 12:35, Peter Bernard Ladkin wrote:
> Scenarios such as those Bertrand describes are not that far-fetched.
Unfortunately, there are in some places senior management who are in the
same state of (lack of) expertise as Bertrand describes. That is a problem
of professional qualification which I would prefer to treat as a separate
issue. 

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