[SystemSafety] Spanish train crash
peter.sheppard at uk.transport.bombardier.com
peter.sheppard at uk.transport.bombardier.com
Mon Jul 29 16:09:21 CEST 2013
So, Greyrigg doesn't count because only one person was killed?
In the UK, the RAIB has ultimate authority on a railway incident site
(regardless if there were fatalities or not). A significant problem in the
past has been railway accident inspectors prevented access by the police
as they have declared it a "crime scene". This has meant that key
readings (e.g. brake pressure) could not be taken promptly and all the
pressure had leaked away by the time they did get access! Thus key
evidence was missed.
The RAIB reports are very thorough and worthy of a read.
Cheers
Peter
Peter Sheppard
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Dick Selwood <dick at ntcom.co.uk>
Sent by: systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
29/07/2013 15:03
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Subject
Re: [SystemSafety] Spanish train crash
Chris' posting crossed with mine
But it is worth remembering that the media are often rely on "guidance" in
what to write, and it is just possible that there might be interested
parties talking to the press for whom blaming the driver is a very useful
way to hide the infrastructure weakness
ON PBLs point here about "Crime scene", there has been a tendency,
especially in the immediate post-privitisation period, to treat rail
accident sites in Britain as crime scenes, closing the railway for several
days, while the priority for a road traffic accident seems the opposite -
to get the scene recorded and cleared to get the traffic running as soon
as possible. There was pressure to change the rail approach, but whether
this was successful is difficult to say - as fortunately there has not
been a major accident on Britain's railways since Potters Bar in 2004
d
On 29/07/2013 13:54, Peter Bernard Ladkin wrote:
On 7/29/13 1:40 PM, Chris Dale wrote:
The (seemingly) media-led frenzy to find someone to blame is an obstacle
to
the prevention of future accidents.
Yes, but that word "seemingly" is important. I would say rather than it is
enjoined by the legal system. In Germany, France and Spain, as well as
some other countries, the legal system is required to ascertain if any
crime has been committed and has priority in impounding evidence. The
British investigators involved in the Concorde Paris crash complained
publicly about how their work was hindered.
This has been perceived to hinder the technical investigation of aviation
accidents so much that in 2006 (or was it 2007?) the Flight Safety
Foundation, the U.K. Royal Aeronautical Society, the French Academie
Nationale de l'Air and the Civil Air Navigation Services Organisation
issued a joint statement deploring the "criminalisation" of air accident
investigations and listing the disadvantages (see Slide 31 of
http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/Bieleschweig/ninth/LadkinB9Slides.pdf ,
which also includes examples from Taiwan, Brazil and Switzerland).
PBL
Prof. Peter Bernard Ladkin, Faculty of Technology, University of
Bielefeld, 33594 Bielefeld, Germany
Tel+msg +49 (0)521 880 7319 www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de
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