[SystemSafety] Agile methods
René Senden
rene.senden at gmail.com
Mon Sep 2 17:32:51 CEST 2013
Myriam,
You are right about my initial question being somewhat polarizing, perhaps
because I tacitly assumed that anyone whod answer this question with Yes,
would also include some
of the corresponding experiences
Regarding experience with reconciliation
of agile environments with typical/common/
(software) safety standards, I
am very interested in the
development processes and corresponding results/evidence/outputs, all this
should be auditable. Is it (at all) possible to harmonize these very
different worlds, or would any such
attempt result in compromising either? Transparency, auditability,
documentation, and safety specific processes such as analyses are examples
that, to me, seem to be particularly
difficult to address in an agile environment, lets take scrum as an
example of a popular agile approach.
Rene
From: systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
[mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] On Behalf Of M
Mencke
Sent: maandag 2 september 2013 14:39
To: Jon Davies
Cc: systemsafety at techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Agile methods
René,
I have come across a situation in the railway field where an organization
was required by the customer to comply with a safety standard which has
specific requirements on the software development process, in this case, EN
50128, where this was previously not required.
It seems to me that this type of situation typically arises in
industries/products where the SIL concept has traditionally not been
applied, or is being introduced. The customer creates a SIL requirement as
a type of marketing argument, where the SIL is understood by the customer as
applying to equipment rather than to a function (in order to be able to
state This equipment is SIL X in commercial scenarios).
Regarding your question, Have you encountered a situation, in industrial
practice, in which an organization developing software following an agile
methodology has to comply with a safety standard which has specific
requirements on the software development process?
This is a polar question, which can only be answered with a yes/no.
If you are interested in practical experience, it might be useful to add to
this question which aspect(s) of such a situation you are interested in. For
example, if the answer is yes, was the project actually a success? Which
measures/procedures were implemented in the company to approach this problem
and reconcile the development process with such requirements?, etc.
Depending on the type of information you are seeking, it may not be possible
to provide particular details regarding such a state of affairs, as this
information may be company-specific.
Regards,
Myriam.
2013/9/2 Jon Davies <jdavies at theiet.org>
On 30 August 2013 18:02, René Senden <rene.senden at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Do any of you have practical experience with reconciling established agile
> software development with software safety requirements (e.g. IEC-61508 or
> DO-178..) ?
Yes, and we usually end up throwing away the software developed using
"agile" methods, and starting again properly.
I'm taking "agile software development" as meaning the development of
software using processes consistent with the agile manifesto:
http://agilemanifesto.org/ - to quote the relevant part:
"...we value... working software over comprehensive documentation"
this is fundamentally in conflict with many of the things we know
about building high integrity software, and so "agile" methods are
fundamentally in conflict with developing software for safety critical
systems.
There's plenty to learn from agile development methods that might be
useful in high integrity software development, but that's a whole
different discussion. Every time we discuss agile development here,
we end up back at the need to use a development process that builds in
correctness - we can't test exhaustively, so we need a process that
builds integrity in. Agile methods don't do this.
Jon
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