[SystemSafety] Logic

[RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE)]

 *   Engineers are responsible for what they do.
This depends on the countries and their local engineering cultures and legal system. In France engineers are not personally responsible. The boss of the company is responsible. Engineer is not a regulated position such as dentist or lawyer ...

 *   Engineering is a profession not some amateur activity.
Yes but you sincerely believe that you are a good professional and have no reason to doubt about that as long as nobody demonstrates you that you are actually an amateur.

 *   Mathematics is an essential component of professional computer engineering.
Yes but :

1.      Having never been thought that they were essential, you sincerely believe you don't need them as long as nobody demonstrates you that you actually do.

2.      The associated level of maths is more relevant from a master degree than a bachelor degree, which means that, at least in France:

a.       You don't what to do with the existing automation engineer population

b.      You don't have the budget to replace bachelors by masters.

Bertrand Ricque
Program Manager
Optronics and Defence Division
Sights Program
Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64
Tel : +33 1 59 11 96 82
Bertrand.ricque at sagem.com


c.

From: systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de [mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] On Behalf Of John Knight
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:58 PM
To: Peter Bernard Ladkin; knight at cs.virginia.edu
Cc: systemsafety at techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Logic

Peter,



obviously I agree with much of what you say. But I am discussing with people who believe that we

constitute an exception to much of it.

I think we are talking about different things.  Research projects need software rapid prototypes to support investigation in areas such as AI and robotics.   These are "throw-away" prototypes that should never make it into production and usually don't.

I am talking about software products that are part of engineered computer systems which will subject others (possibly the general public) to risk.  Higher education has a responsibility to prepare professional engineers to perform that engineering.  That education needs to make it clear that:

 *   Engineers are responsible for what they do.
 *   Engineering is a profession not some amateur activity.
 *   Mathematics is an essential component of professional computer engineering.

In response to the comment from Les Chambers:

"We must find a way to bring formal methods out of the lab and into general use."

I generally agree.  But I note that we have industrial strength systems such as SPARK Ada, industrial scope use of such systems such as the NATS iFACTS system, and substantial evidence from Peter Amey and his colleagues that applying such technology is cheaper and better than the informal alternatives.

-- John
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